The eternal question...

[dcproven]

So the RRC is in great shape, just passed SMOG test with flying colours (seems appropriate to use that spelling), but once again, I am considering if I should sell it.

I have no time for offroading, and my eldest is starting college next year, so I know it will happen in the near future...

 

Considering the prices RRCs are fetching, should I just hold to it for a little longer or try to get something south of $10K with all extras I have around for overlanding??

 

I know mine is not beauty queen, but it has been *very* reliable, as some of you know and all the important bits work fine.

 

So, what should I do?

 

The only reason I have to keep it is for that yearly escape that makes it all worth it (someone said "BAJA"?)

 

Anyone wants to guess what kind of money could be asked for my LWB?

 

[SLOHybrid]

I could ask if the old owner want's it back??

[Justin]

Hold onto that badboy. 

 

Prices seem to continue to keep on climbing. I'd let it sit a few more years and try fetching a bit more. Pricing is hard to call. I mean some have LWB at 10k, 15k, and 20k lol. 

 

I'd figure it would fetch 15k

[DHappel]

I can't say what it would bring as I don't know the condition of the truck but as we all know the prices for RRCs are on the up and don't look to be going down any time soon.  

 

If you think you'll get more time to use it in a year or two I'd say hold onto it.  If you sell now, even at top dollar, you won't be able to replace it like-for-like in a couple years without spending even more.

 

This assumes you like the truck as it's currently set-up.  If on the other hand you think you'd like to try something different then sure, I can see selling it and starting the search for a new project or even new platform.

 

I'm also assuming you have space for it and don't have to fight for parking, etc.  If that's the case, it's not like a couple years of DMV and insurance is that much money for an old Land Rover.

 

So to summarize:  Keep it unless you think you want something else.  Don't sell if you think you'll just want to get back to it in a year or two.

[DHappel]

BTW, I was pretty sure the eternal question was either Life, the Universe, and Everything, or the average air-speed of a swallow.

[astateofmike]

42.

 

Keep it. I know very few who have let it go "it was not getting used" who didnt regret that decision. Reason why I still have mine.

[DHappel]

42.

 

Keep it. I know very few who have let it go "it was not getting used" who didnt regret that decision. Reason why I still have mine.

Yeah, I mean, you could sell it then end up with an RRS.....

[astateofmike]

Could be worse. Could end up with a Freelander.

[DiscoChef]

What you need my friend...is a good voodoo cleansing to get rid of your evil thoughts!!! I'm not taking you to Baja in J**per or other such monstrosity like that.

 

In all seriousness, hang on to it for a little longer (not like its value is going down) and get out and wheel it more, get the ladies involved.

 

Be well my friend (and you know,that I'll take even in a Kia )

[AdvRovr]

Yeah, I mean, you could sell it then end up with an RRS.....

Oh shuddup, you.

 

I do still regret selling it almost daily

 

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[SLOHybrid]

You guys don't want to know where I found this car and how much I originally paid for it

 

Those days are over!

[dcproven]

I know, I know, I have always regretted selling any LR, but I think is time to move on (or close to), the RRC is so low on my priority list, that I barely even get in the garage, just when I drive it to work every 2 weeks or so, to make sure it gets a little work out.... my commute is 10 miles though, barely enough to warm it up.

Also, it works great now, and we all know, that is doomed to change soon

 

Next year, we will need to downsize, we see 8 years of college in front of us (the girls are 4 years apart), most likely no garage or small one, 2 parking spaces, we have 4 cars, the least used is the RRC

I want to go full electric anyway, I am done with ICE, so I will be replacing the family cars with electric slowly, after the leases are up on 2 of them.

The girls have about zero interest in going camping, and if I drag them, *I* will be miserable anyway.

I like the RRS, but I don't seem to be interested that much in anything LR made after the change of century, so no thanks.

I will keep the series for when I retire, then I'll try the EV conversion on it, that should be fun.

 

So anyway, I am not in a hurry, I just see it coming, looming in the horizon, it seems to be the logical thing to do..... but, then again, when did logic had anything to do with owning a bloody Land Rover???

[DHappel]

fully electric.....yeah - that's not even a remotely doable option for me!  You must be a city dweller who never goes anywhere if you're serious about that, at least at this point in the game.  

 

My 'commute' today:

 

Walnut Grove to San Francisco via Sausalito

Oakland

Redwood City

Alameda

Oakland

 

Tomorrow I only have to go from Oakland to Emeryville.  If I finish the job there in time I'll be able to head home to Walnut Grove, otherwise it's back to Oakland then a repeat on Thursday.

 

So what's the range on a fully electric work vehicle again?  Oh wait, there isn't even one of those on the market anyway!  

 

Pure electric is still just a toy at this point.  Eventually it may indeed become a legitimate option but until it has a 3-400 mile range between charges it's worthless to me.  I'm not bad-mouthing it here; my work vehicle is a purely dollars and sense application.  Show me an electric that can do the job and make me money and I'll be happy to put it on the shopping list.  But it doesn't exist.

[dcproven]

I am not saying is what everyone has to do, it's just what I think makes sense for me, I commute less than 60 miles a week, hell, I drive more to go for rehearsal on weekends to LA, so the current autonomy of 200+ miles should be plenty for almost 2 weeks for me.

My wife drives less.

And if they ever figure out the public transport in the LA area I live, I'll be doing that, I don't ride a bike to work, because people don't know how to drive, period, I kind of like being alive and all.

I hike almost 4 miles every day, so if I move a little closer I may just walk to work...

EVs are here to stay and not a toy anymore, prices are OK, autonomy is fine, and if you need to go far away with a car you could always rent or keep an old Land Rover to break down in the middle of nowhere

Regarding generation CA is planting solar panels everywhere all the schools around here have enough to "feed" the area and then some.

The current gas car culture must end, not sustainable long term as we all should know

[astateofmike]

EV cars are cool. Check out EV West. Way cool. An ev rover? Quiet, non polluting, full torque minimum speed? I am in.

 

Costs? Still to high. I cant see my roi on it yet The distance? I could make it work, but not in the back country. Not yet. So I still dream of the diesel, the fry oil diesel....maybe one day soon.

 

But if I put 300 miles or more a day in for work? Wouldnt be possible

[DHappel]

Sorry, I got a little bitchy there.  I think I needed a Snickers.

 

Honestly, if a hybrid or EV could work for me I'd do it.  My work van is purely a logic game; it's awful to drive so it's not like I'm choosing it for it's enjoyment factor.

 

But the inability to refuel (recharge) is a deal breaker.  Not that it matters as nobody actually makes a hybrid or EV work vehicle.  I assume when the numbers work somebody will do that as fleets aren't looking for style or speed, they're looking for ROI.

 

I'm not home every night; I don't have the ability to charge when I'm working as I don't go the same old office every day.  I usually eat on the road, so even the 'fast' recharge places that 'only' take an hour or whatever (and who actually takes an hour for lunch anyway?) where people say they just charge during lunch doesn't work.  At least for me. I'd basically only be able to recharge on the weekends when I'm home.  And since I don't run a fixed route, it's a toss-up on the range I'd have to have, so figure at least 300-400 just to be safe.

 

Maybe one day EV will be able to do that.  But let's just say fuel will be here for quite a while yet.

 

As for pollution, I don't really care one way or the other.  You either pollute with burning gas (diesel), or you pollute by burning coal and mining lithium.  I.E. remote emissions, not zero emissions.  

[astateofmike]

I hear ya.  The ability to stop, fuel, and go....especially in my car that gets about 500 miles to the tank at 80 mph.  Can't trade that in yet.

 

Check out these guys...https://www.facebook.com/ElectricVehicleWest/

 

I think my daughter, who will probably only have EV car choices, wants the all electric Baja Bug.

 

Now, back to some music....

 

"Jump to the ground

As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine –
For fifty-odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream"

[Mr.BlueSky]

Please keep this thread going  insert (popcorn emoji here).

 

This is an excellent debate, and a timely one at that, and would love to discuss it over some beers . And if anyone is interested here is a white paper on the well-to-wheel efficiency of ICE and EV cars.

 

http://www.evworld.com/library/Tesla_21centuryEV.pdf

 

Keep in mind it was written in 2006 but the fundamentals still hold true. 

[DHappel]

The white paper is interesting but far to much for me to dig into this morning.  I will note however it is written by Tesla so one does supose some bias may be at play.  

 

In skimming through it I noted this paragraph:

 

The fundamental trade-off in convenience with electric cars is the advantage of starting every day with a “full

tank” (and never visiting a gas station) versus inconvenient refueling on the road. While it is wonderful never to

visit a gas station, this would be a bad trade-off if the driving range was too short

 

And there's the rub - This assumes you only use your vehicle to go on day trips and are home every night where you can plug it in to your home charging system.  Or I can expand on that somewhat and assume that if making an overnight trip you will pick a hotel with charging stations (this probably exist, though no doubt it would severely limit your options).  It further assumes you know exactly how far you will be traveling each day.  What happens when, like me, you need to be gone multiple days and do not stay in hotels with recharging stations during your travels?   Tesla and some governments have begun installing charging stations in select locations but they are far from commonly available.  Contrast this against the likelyhood of NOT finding a gas station almost anywhere in the country.    Further, you can fill a gas tank in a few minutes - even the 'superchargers' found in some Tesla stations take far longer.  It's not a quick pop in and top up, it's pop in, go to lunch, then come back and be at perhaps 80%.  Certainly much faster and more convenient than 110v or even 220v charging but a far cry from the speed and ease of gasoline.  Additionally, as is demonstrated by the fact so many of us have jerry cans on our bumpers or roof racks, extending the range of a gas powered vehicle either for remote travel or due to running out of fuel is quite easy while finding an extra can of amps is rather more difficult.  (though I can envision somebody one day selling a portable external battery much like the USB batteries used to extend the life of your cell phone)

 

EV is a viable option, but only for a very limited part of the population.  Eventually I expect the technology will bring the price down to be at least closer to gasoline and the range will no doubt improve.  But for now I can only see EVs as a 'second' car, maybe even a primary car, but unless you live in a major city and rarely leave (in which case public transit could also be considered an option) I don't see them as replacements for traditional fuels.  I stand ready to revise this opinion as the technology and infrastructure matures.

[dcproven]

Damn, this is a good topic to discuss over a fire/cold one/cigar for sure.

 

I liked this article which pretty much adds up all of it as of today, with the occasion of the Tesla model 3 launch https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-model-3-electric-market/

 

They talk about the overtake of EVs over ICEs by 2040-ish, but I think it is going to be like with mobile phones, remember how quick it all happened because it made sense? so I think something like that will happen.

 

Again, I am just trying to do what I think is right for me and my family, but I understand all the pros and cons.

 

Cheers!

 

I just remember something Luis mentioned, about new solar panels, small, light and efficient, that will allow recharging on the road while driving in the near(ish) future

[AdvRovr]

I think the Teslas have gotten to the point where they can be a solid "only car". The supercharger network is incredibly impressive and pretty quick.

 

Obviously they don't work for everyone, like Don, but that is truly an extreme case. They also probably are not great for recreation like we do with our Rovers. But for the other 99% of the population...

 

David, the carbon impact of you keeping a 20+ year old rig and only driving it occasionally is negligible, especially for a gasoline engine with a catalytic converter that meets CA smog requirements. Even if you have to pay to store it, I think it's too clean and special to be worth selling it. You're very likely to regret selling it later on.

 

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[lithium1330]

Speaking of RRC...

This is a good looking truck...

 

http://vip-worldwidevintageautos.com/content/1991-land-rover-range-rover-swb-classic-restored-67k

[dcproven]

Speaking of RRC...

This is a good looking truck...

 

http://vip-worldwidevintageautos.com/content/1991-land-rover-range-rover-swb-classic-restored-67k

Oh right, that was the original post!

[DHappel]

That's a pretty nice looking RRC, and doesn't appear to be an outrageous price as I would normally expect from a place like that.  Granted, it does need a few things and I'm not super fond of that color on an RRC, but still looks very nice.

[DHappel]

 

I just remember something Luis mentioned, about new solar panels, small, light and efficient, that will allow recharging on the road while driving in the near(ish) future

Something like this would be a game changer not only for cars but for our power grid in general.  A small, light, extremely efficient and cheap solar panel would literally alter the landscape as we know it.

 

However, much like ultra energy dense batteries, this magical device always seems to be just over the horizon.  People have dreamed of these for years but nobody has yet to make a significant dent.  The same could be said of hydrogen powered cars.  Actually, hydrogen power is available but not in mass-market just yet.  These things seem so close yet remain so far away.

 

With our current administration's proclivities, the gains in efficiency of oil extraction with corresponding low cost of oil, and a general distrust of science among such a large portion of the population I suspect we have set back the cause of purely electric vehicles or hyper efficient solar, or ultra dense batteries by years.