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i need some emotional support & guidance

girlrvr

By girlrvr
in General Discussion Forum

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DHappel Mentor

DHappel

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Which I assume was just done?

 

Graeme

I sure hope he didn't put the old stuff back in!

 

The pic of the trans drain plug isn't good, but I wouldn't look at that and say 'gotta rebuild the trans'.  Certainly that's more wear than you'd want to see but there are a lot of variables to consider.  How old is the oil?  Is that a year of wear?  2 years of wear?  10 years of wear?  As for red oil, I don't know what the factory recommends for that transmission but 'normal' manual transmissions use 'normal' gear oil like 80w90 - which isn't exactly black, but it's pretty dark.  Certainly not red.   It's possible the PO filled it with standard oil (?).  I think you'll find out a lot more about it by letting Graeme take it around the block since he's familiar with that transmission himself than you will from an oil inspection.  Heck, you could take his around the block for a comparison point.  Just how it feels/shifts should tell you enough to decide on a course of action.  If it shifts OK and doesn't sound like you're grinding corn meal I say keep driving it.  Maybe you end up doing oil changes in it a little more often but chances are you've got years left in that thing.

 

As for the diff - who cares?  You're putting another one in anyway!  

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DHappel Mentor

DHappel

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To be fair, I'm not trying to throw Ceroni's under the bus here, though I think they could have done a better job of explaining your options to be sure.  It's one thing for somebody like us to say 'just put in a used part' or 'keep running it until it dies', but a professional shop certainly can't do that sort of thing, especially with a customer they don't know really well.  

 

Just another example of how you can't expect to own one of these and only service it at the dealer.  What we might fix for a few hundred dollars a dealer wants thousands for.  

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GraemeWare Newbie

GraemeWare

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I sure hope he didn't put the old stuff back in!

 

The pic of the trans drain plug isn't good, but I wouldn't look at that and say 'gotta rebuild the trans'.  Certainly that's more wear than you'd want to see but there are a lot of variables to consider.  How old is the oil?  Is that a year of wear?  2 years of wear?  10 years of wear?  As for red oil, I don't know what the factory recommends for that transmission but 'normal' manual transmissions use 'normal' gear oil like 80w90 - which isn't exactly black, but it's pretty dark.  Certainly not red.   It's possible the PO filled it with standard oil (?).  I think you'll find out a lot more about it by letting Graeme take it around the block since he's familiar with that transmission himself than you will from an oil inspection.  Heck, you could take his around the block for a comparison point.  Just how it feels/shifts should tell you enough to decide on a course of action.  If it shifts OK and doesn't sound like you're grinding corn meal I say keep driving it.  Maybe you end up doing oil changes in it a little more often but chances are you've got years left in that thing.

 

As for the diff - who cares?  You're putting another one in anyway!

Don,

 

Land Rover R380 should use MTF94, previously ATF was specified, but from my experience that causes premature wear due to cavitation. Probably why LR changed the spec. Most oil change places look it up, then use ATF.  You end up with bad synchros and a hedgehog on the drain plug ....

 

As for the rest, spot on.

 

I need to see where the play is before commenting on the diff.

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

 

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GraemeWare Newbie

GraemeWare

Posted
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(this is the second time I've written this due to a forum issue on the last one ....)

 

So, Jeanne is back running and heading home.

 

I took a drive round in Jeanne's D1 last night, and there was indeed a 'clunk' that needed investigation, but otherwise it drives well.  Slow running at cold is rather lumpy and uneven, with obvious signs of over-fueling, but nothing major.

 

This morning, in daylight, the reason for the clunk became apparent.  The diff pinion flange had so much play that it had even knocked the mud shield off!

 

So, having unwrapped my spare diff and dusted it off with compressed air (all good, no rust or anything from storage), we got ready to work.  Lifted up the front and wheels off.  Found a small weep from the left front brake caliper, but nothing too severe.

 

We spent a while breaking loose all seven screws on each side (swivel assembly to axle).  They obviously hadn't been off often (if ever).  Just before I got the last bolt out of the left side I had a 'vision'.  I'd already told Jeanne the story of the diff flange bolt that loosened (well, totally unscrewed) on our way back from Shaver a few years back, leaving half our driveshaft (propshaft) on the freeway.  It suddenly occurred to me that maybe the diff pinion bearing wasn't shot after all, maybe it was the bolt (or nut, depending on the type fitted) that had loosened, especially since the rotation of the diff had been changed.

A quick jump underneath, driveshaft off and .... yes, the nut was loose!  Quickly pulled it apart and found copious quantities of RTV silicon crap in there too!  Those that know me are aware of what I think of that garbage.  I have seen more rotating assemblies wrecked with that stuff than with any other tool, fluid, or sealer.

 

After a quick visit to RoverWare.US, we had the new pinion oil seal and a new mud shield, both of which were in stock.  I quickly demonstrated how to fit a mud shield, and also demonstrated how to take it off again (without damage) just in case you put it on the wrong way.  Useful trick to learn.  Located a felt washer somewhere in the workshop (to replace the RTV) and all went back together (with some Locktite to assist the nylock nut).  Magic!  No more pinion wobble!

 

We replaced the 7 bolts each side of the axle casing and decided to take her for a spin.  The main clonk was gone and Jeanne said it felt much better.

 

On the "to do" list:

 

Change diff fluid.

Change gearbox oil to new MTF94 (why would anyone refill with old oil?)

Change transfer case oil (while empty remove inspection plate, inspect gears, use Hylomar - or similar - to reseal, but not RTV)

Replace seals on left front caliper (and probably right front too, as they are just as old)

Grease front and rear driveshafts with a good moly loaded grease.

Clean MAF and check TPS (possibly check for inlet manifold leak)

Replace nut on front panhard rod bolt (it was loose and has worn the nut through continual motion)

Replace center exhaust support rubber (might need slight modification of the mount to make it work better)

Right drag link TRE boot is torn.  Replace at some point.

Right motor mount separated.  Suggest change both mounts.  Gearbox mounts okay.

 

 

 

So, unless something else shows it's ugly head, I think there has been a substantial saving here ....

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

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girlrvr Newbie

girlrvr

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So $7500 worth of work, or a few hundred in oil and related service. Seems like pretty much the same thing.

 

right? omg. 

 

i agree with what you said earlier, don, about his being a professional shop and having to cover all bases. but still ...

 

and, yeah,  graeme and i may have cracked the code.

btw, graeme, what was a quick and thorough writeup. quite impressed.

 

i drove up from graeme's.

sooo much less clunking in the drivetrain. noticeably, for me. so that makes me happy !!!

 

still some clunking but ok for city/highway driving.

will play around with it some more and observe behaviors.

 

i had the trans fluid just changed (yes, i will confirm that frank poured my old trans fluid back in).

 

as for list of things to do: 

 

any chance i could join the wrench day tomorrow?

 

i could do most of it myself (change dfif oil, tcase oil, maf - i have a spare that i want to test to see (a) if it works and (B) if it solves my hunting/rough idle problem) just need space to work but the big thing would be to do the caliper seals (i have the kit direct from the source, roverware.us) :-) 

 

and do i need to grab some brake fluid if we are working on the caliper seals? 

 

plmk!

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DiscoChef Newbie

DiscoChef

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Jeanne, I didn't read the whole thread but got the gist of it,that being said, I have front and rear diffs that came out of a good 98 D1 as well as stock axles. You are welcome to have them (gratis).

I'll go back and re-read this thread, I just wanted to let you know that the parts are there, as well as my time to help with the rebuild.

Happy trails! :)

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girlrvr Newbie

girlrvr

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one other thing, graeme and i determined that RTE sent me the wrong drag link (which is currently installed).

we held up the drag link for  D2 against the installed.

the one installed is at least 2" longer than the D2 drag link.

 

remember all my "why did the shop have such a hard time installing these RTE bars" woes?

know we know.

 

off to the walnut grove! :-)

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TigerDan Newbie

TigerDan

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I'm a little late to the party, (as usual!) but here's my two cents worth:

 

Regarding the tranny, I wouldn't be too worried about the synchro, it's very common with the R380 and can be lived with a for a long, long time. I have an R380 in my RRC, it came out of a D90 and was replaced because the very picky owner apparently couldn't live with a bad 3rd gear synchro, and somehow got the idea that the transmission case casting was faulty and exceptionally porous and accounted for his fluid leak, that the fluid was going right through the case. So he had a shop replace the entire transmission, with either a new one or an Ashcroft rebuild, not sure which. I got the old one and had to open it up to swap the D90 shift linkage for the Disco/RRC  linkage, and cleaned and resealed the case at the same time. It's been in my RRC for 3 or 4 years now and I don't know how many thousands of miles, I've never had to add more fluid as the only leak is the barest weep, and I just shift slowly and firmly and it doesn't seem to have gotten any worse in all this time. And my RRC is my Daily Driver, and currently my only working vehicle. As Graeme said, the original fluid is Dexron ATF, I've been running Redline MTL in it and it's been very happy with that. It's probably about time to change it however.

 

It's also not really unusual to see a bit of metallic crap on the LT230 transfer case drain plug, but I wouldn't worry that your T-case is about to explode or anything unless it starts to give you problems. I prefer to run a synthetic 75W90 gear oil in the LT230. I've been running Redline's Shock Proof gear oil but it's about due for a change and I think I'll go back to Valvoline synthetic.

 

Sounds like you dodged a bullet with Graeme finding the loose pinion nut. At the worst, you've probably got some unusual wear patterns on the ring and pinion teeth now, but if you're planning to install a TruTrac in the front, I'd just nab one of those diffs you've been offered and build that up with the TT so it's all ready to go when it comes time for the swap. I don't think I'd want to reuse the ring and pinion you've got now.

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DHappel Mentor

DHappel

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Always good to hear from Mr. Tiger Dan.

 

As a point of interest, I'm running 85w140 in both difs and the LT230 with a Detroit in the rear and ARB in the front.  My logic here was 1-easier to carry some spares if all are the same and 2-heavier oil may offer a bit more shock resistance under heavy use at a minor cost in economy.

 

Any thoughts?  It's just plain old dino oil and I generally do annual changes.  

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JFuller Newbie

JFuller

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As an FYI, as it seams you are well down the road of solving your problems, there is a manual trans d1 at the rocklin pick n pull. Not sure if the tranny is still there but I bet it is. I have rebuilt my R380 two times. The first time I just dropped it off at a tranny shop and they butchered the job. A few years later I did it again and used a rebuild kit sourced from Ashcroft. I'm sure that RoverWare could help you with that or you could order direct. Any shop that tells you that you can't get parts is just not interested in your money. I dropped my tranny off at a local shop I trusted along with all the parts and they returned it cleaned and painted and repaired for about $600 if I remember correctly. Always options.
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girlrvr Newbie

girlrvr

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hello everyone.

 

thought i'd give a bit of closure to this thread. the newest info is item (7) :-)

 

first, i am both more emotionally and mechanically stable at this point, though, we all know stability is relative and, alas, fleeting. hahaha.

 

to recap:

 

1) with pinion nut tight and  mud seal, a lot of the slack is noticeably gone.

2) new tranny fluid - put in AMSoil 

3) brakes and clutch bled with new fluid

4) replaced brake caliper on driver front - amazingly stops straight now. lol

5) the dude at RTE said he's going to send me a replacement steering rod that's 1/2" shorter and pay for a shop to do the swap. so he said. he's since gone dark. 

6) swapped the MAF sensor with a used one that the PO gave me when i bought the car and it seems to have smoothed out a lot of the rough/hunting idle. and may (!!) be positively effecting my fuel economy. will run through the next full tank to see what i get.

 

today:

 

7) new tcase oil - used 80-90 (from o'reilly's - i think it's valvoline).

 

there was a teeny bit of metal on the drain plug (prob 1/20th of what was on the tranny drain plug).  of more interest, is that there was *only* just over 1 qt of oil in the tcase. we had to pour the old oil into the empty bottles so that i could bring them to the oil drop off. barely over 1 qt (takes 2.5 qts per manual). i recall that it was checked a year ago and was ok. the leak didn't *look* that bad .... there's certainly isn't a quart of oil on the concrete floor of my parking spot. question: is this indicative of something i should we worried about?

 

after monkeying around with the bolts on the inspection plate (damn, those things were in there hella tight!), we realized that the uppermost forward-most bolt probably wouldn't be able to back all the way out because there is a bracket in the way (transmission mount?? IDK) so we just screwed them back in, torqued them down and called it a day.  question: we didn't put locktite because we never took them all the way out. is this an issue? should be fine, right?

 

and that's all i got for now

 

thanks, again, guys, for all your help!

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girlrvr Newbie

girlrvr

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If you want to do the TT in the front, you may not need to do that much if you’re going to reuse the ring and pinion gears from the donor third. You definitely won’t have to mess with the pinion measurements, and may not have to shim it to get the correct backlash (play). I put in a TT myself on a gm 10 bolt and the TT was close enough to the stock LSD that I didn’t need to adjust anything. Even if you do need to shim it, it’s not too tricky. I have a meter to measure the backlash and a press for the bearings, it’s simple to do. It’s even easier because it all can be done on a bench top rather than do it on the axle housing itself. I would be willing to help in my garage, I wouldn’t mind doing it for the experience. All you would have to do is bring the third and new parts. It’s an easier job than you might think.

In regards to the HD shafts, I would do it if I were you. Chromolly shafts are very strong and rarely break unless you’re running huge tires. It’s an expense that will give you a lot of peace of mind on trail and an expense you probably won’t have to make twice. I’ve broken stock axles a couple times on trail and it can be a real hassle, especially if you don’t have access to spares. If you plan on going on trails that require lockers, then I’d expect to eventually break one of those stock shafts. It’s a good preventative expense.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

hi eric

leme figure out when/if i will do the TT and i'd love to take you up on your offer for help. that would be awesome. thanks!

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JFuller Newbie

JFuller

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For reference, I drive a 96 D1 with a manual and there is plenty of backlash (sloppyness) in the drivetrain.  It's a bit annoying but it hasn't ever been a problem and most other rover owners complain of similar issues.  I wouldn't worry about it.  

 

Regarding your T-case oil.  I wouldn't really worry about it, but would check it at some regular intervals, like when you change your engine oil, to get a handle on if it's still disappearing or not.  It's not as if the oil can leak out of the t-case and into the engine or trans.  The transfer cases are pretty tough so don't lose to much sleep over this.

 

As long as you torqued down the inspection plate bolts you should be just fine.  Worst case they start getting loose and all the leaking oil will let you know if that happens, but it's unlikely.

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