TomOwen Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I want to thank David for his bottle jack, Graeme for the use of his tarp, and Anudeep for lending me his full size spare tire. You all are amazing and I appreciate it so much! Oh and Don for helping change the tire! Fine line between "Chivalry coming to the aid of a Damsel in distress" and "No Member Left Behind" ;-) Lot's of good experience acquired on that trip... that's great! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRover Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Interesting it's recorded in a different format or different Codec when recorded "upside" down... Didn't know that one... I'm taking a wild guess, but I assume there is some orientation metadata loaded with the video -- applications that read it and do something with it probably re-orient the video to show correctly to the viewer, whereas applications that don't just display it upside down, exactly as I recorded it. I recorded it upside down because I'm used to the physical start/stop button being at the top, but apparently the 'right way to hold it' is flipped over from that orientation. -Jared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerDan Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I just thought you guys pulled a fast one and went wheeling Down Under. Still and all, looks like it was fun. Even allowing for the distance I kinda wish I'd gone, rather than just hanging out here and cleaning up my driveway after the storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomOwen Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm taking a wild guess, but I assume there is some orientation metadata loaded with the video -- applications that read it and do something with it probably re-orient the video to show correctly to the viewer, whereas applications that don't just display it upside down, exactly as I recorded it. I recorded it upside down because I'm used to the physical start/stop button being at the top, but apparently the 'right way to hold it' is flipped over from that orientation. -Jared "You're holding it wrong...". ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psykokid Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Just because: [video=youtube_share;Bt9zSfinwFA]http://youtu.be/Bt9zSfinwFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pedram Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I want to thank David for his bottle jack, Graeme for the use of his tarp, and Anudeep for lending me his full size spare tire. You all are amazing and I appreciate it so much! Oh and Don for helping change the tire! I must of just been watching and waiting with my fingers crossed..... I watched Erin drive through those rocks but from my view that wasn't close enough. I'll post more videos soon. I wanted to edit them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvRovr Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Looks like a great time guys! I'll be at the next one for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pedram Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hopefully everyone does as good or better than Donski Downhill Bob sled anchor man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erinw.rrc Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hopefully everyone does as good or better than Donski Downhill Bob sled anchor man :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco2Guy Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'm taking a wild guess, but I assume there is some orientation metadata loaded with the video -- applications that read it and do something with it probably re-orient the video to show correctly to the viewer, whereas applications that don't just display it upside down, exactly as I recorded it. I recorded it upside down because I'm used to the physical start/stop button being at the top, but apparently the 'right way to hold it' is flipped over from that orientation. -Jared The real reason is that there is no standard way to interpret the meta data to which way is up. Sometimes in Windows Previewer I will rotate an image to match it with the thumbnail, and it saves the image correctly. Otherwise it has to be saved in Photoshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomOwen Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I've been wondering about this too, and thinking about what could have been done better. Obviously the best move would have been to simply not go down the hill. This wasn't some remote can't-turn-back journey, we were just out playing for the day. Another option would have been to winch down the hill. Slow going, but it could have been done. We would likely have had to anchor the vehicle doing the lowering to keep it from being drug down the hill as well. I don't recall a lot of big trees in that area to secure to, so that might have meant some digging or other creative work. But as for actually coming down the hill-We had been sliding around already several times earlier in the day. I'd tried one 'simple' hill early in the run and didn't make it up - ended up sliding/backing down the hill in a semi-controlled manner because the brakes wouldn't hold me on the hill in the mud. So I ended up backing down a little faster than wanted just to keep some steering. Another tip-off (though too late to stop at that point) was as I was just easing over the edge Graeme was standing there saying 'you're front wheel is locked...' as I inched forward under gravity alone. I knew it was locked but didn't want to release the brakes until the last second when I was fully on the hill. At that point I was only just barely moving but I was already 'out of control' in that I couldn't stop or back up. The only choice I had was to lift off the brake until the front tires started to roll again so I could have some steering. I relied primarily on the hill decent control. Normally it does a very good job of keeping each wheel turning as slowly as possible via ABS so that you maintain control. But it's downfall is that it will keep allowing speed to build if the tires can't get any grip which is exactly what was going on here. You can see that the wheels are turning (as they should be) in the video, but there's just not enough traction for the computer to do much braking without locking a wheel. So what would have happened in a traditional truck? Just 1st low and go? I suspect the tires would have been rolling, but at a slower rate than the vehicle was moving at, so still not giving proper control. To regain steering you would likely have needed to give it some throttle to keep the tires moving at vehicle speed, which may well have resulted in moving even faster than I was going. Perhaps better tires would have helped, though in that situation I don't really think it would have made a huge difference. A lighter truck might well have helped as well. Once you get to a steep/slick enough hill that the vehicle can't hold itself in place without sliding, you're pretty much at the whim of gravity. I went over the edge knowing I would have to just ride it down until I got to the bottom, but not expecting to build that much speed. In retrospect I should have anticipated that and maybe I could have been better prepared. Or just not have gone at all. It would be interesting to see how a really good driver would have handled this decent. Or a different truck. But I don't think anybody is going to volunteer to go back and try it any time soon. I thought I had posted this earlier but I guess not... This video and the following "what if..." made me think of this video... The relevant part starts are 10:54 with the successful pass about 13:30... Granted I wasn't at either place and there are tons of variables between the two scenarios, but it's kinda funny to see these two play rabbit up and down the slick terrain... [video=youtube_share;cvXkkvWn0Sc]http://youtu.be/cvXkkvWn0Sc?t=10m54s Looks like fun, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHappel Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 You did post that back on page 10 I think. The primary difference I think is the lack of grip from the mud. The grip was low enough that the vehicle could not hold itself on the hill. In fact, with just the front tires over the lip I was beginning to slide down. The traditional method is just like they showed - 1st low, dif lock on, no brakes. Use the gearing and compression to slow the truck. In this instance I still do not believe that would have worked as there was not enough grip for the gears/compression to work against. It would have still slid. The tires may have been turning, but gravity would have pulled the truck down faster than they were turning since there just wasn't enough friction for them to work against. And once you start sliding, the tires will load up with mud and just become a skate. At least this is my speculation. I don't think there WAS a way to get down that hill, given the low grip, in a controlled manner as there simply was not enough friction to slow the rotating tires. I should have realized that but didn't think it through enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomOwen Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I hear ya. In my world, I love to strap into the "test vehicle" and keep trying until we figured it out... Slide, bump, roll, repeat... ;-) Lets get that d1 from montara and a tube bender. Club test rig.. Hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirowsky Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Thanks for the exciting recap. Now I don't feel so bad about chickening out of that Frank Raines run. I get to enjoy it vicariously, in comfort and safety. Question: What happens when a Land Rover rolls? Does the roof collapse? Can it be rolled upright and driven away? Observation: Both the vehicle and the driver are more capable than the driver felt at the time. This makes a good margin of error. Florida John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psykokid Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Question: What happens when a Land Rover rolls? Does the roof collapse? Can it be rolled upright and driven away? Florida John It depends on the hill and where the vehicle has rolled. It can be as simple as a flop like the one that happened at shaver lake a couple of years ago or like this on Cleghorn here in SoCal: The truck went over slow and was able to be winched back over with minimal panel damage Then you have this one which happened about a year and a half ago when a few guys were pre-running a trail and Jefferson from SCLR rolled his truck several times on a steep hill near Lake Isabella: Jeff was the tail of the group and had tried to take a more difficult line than everyone else had. He couldn't make the line that he chose and backed up and ended up going off the edge of the trail and rolled the truck. Jeff was able to bail out of the truck (lucky for him) but his passenger was along for the ride to the bottom. The passenger ended up being medivaced out and then they came up the next day and recovered the truck. The results aren't pretty and shows that things can go pear shaped really quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pedram Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Question: What happens when a Land Rover rolls? Does the roof collapse? Can it be rolled upright and driven away? Observation: Both the vehicle and the driver are more capable than the driver felt at the time. This makes a good margin of error. Florida John This was 6 years ago [YouTube]YRzgVqsuwCc[/YouTube] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astateofmike Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'll have to ask Antonio about that. Any more photos of the damage? Never mind, found the video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHappel Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Wait - I don't remember hearing about Antonio going over. Is that truck hill? As for what happens....depends is all I can say. I've rolled a car, but never a Rover... too many variables to make a good prediction. Speed, terrain, model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco2Guy Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Crazy, I've only heard the story of Antonio's RRC on Truck Hill, never saw any video or pics. Thanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astateofmike Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 here is the "aftermath video". I think we need to hear more about this as the windshield frame sure did bend in badly. I have long thought about a roll bar...makes me think about it even more. Glad we have Antonio around to ask about this...and Pedram to make roll bars and flip us over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astateofmike Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Wait - I don't remember hearing about Antonio going over. Is that truck hill? As for what happens....depends is all I can say. I've rolled a car, but never a Rover... too many variables to make a good prediction. Speed, terrain, model. You will notice, ONLY ROVER THERE...so if a Rover rolls over and no other rovers hear it, did it happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pedram Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 here is the "aftermath video". I think we need to hear more about this as the windshield frame sure did bend in badly. I have long thought about a roll bar...makes me think about it even more. Glad we have Antonio around to ask about this...and Pedram to make roll bars and flip us over! I know Mike already did this but it's cooler this way. Here's what happens when you try to copy me. [YouTube]-Y-Mvp5go0M[/YouTube] And here's mine. Before Antonio's. Notice his truck not rolled yet. And it has a roof rack. [YouTube]nb_0D7lhVa0[/YouTube] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirowsky Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Wow. Fantastic videos and photos. It is reassuring that drivers and passengers survived. Still, I'll try not to wind up in one of those shots. Florida John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pedram Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Wow. Fantastic videos and photos. It is reassuring that drivers and passengers survived. Still, I'll try not to wind up in one of those shots. Florida John You just have to "roll wid it". Things happen and you just can't avoid them every time. That's why I bought an older truck. If I take a hit, my wallet won't. Some guys have insurance on things like this but I would rather not get into that subject. It opens for more discussion. But yes everyone lives in all these cases. Nothing more than a scratch or two. No broken bones, just broken toys. I had my fun and learned from it. Let's just say you take your chances everyday. Even walking to the store. There are limits to what you should do. Just be aware and stay calm. Take control of the situation and your going to be fine. Don did that. I'm glad he did what he did. As crazy as it looks, he couldn't of done anything differently for any better outcome. Well, there was the option not to go, but once your moving it's too late. So for that I give Don much props. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHappel Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Keep in mind that at the track I generally would push my car until I spun off at some point (how else do you find the limit?), so I may not be the ideal roll (ha!) model as I have a higher threshold for stupid than most. The threshold seems to be getting lower with age, but I still have a fair bit of 'hey, what's the worst that can happen' in me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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